*we put the "mmm" in communism


This is the personal blog of Tim. Here, Tim writes on anything he has enough inspiration to finish a post on. That usually ends up being matters of science, pop culture, technology, religion, and philosophy.

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A conversation I had with a friend, who lives in Massechusetts.

xKirby at Home (5:30:42 PM): so i was right, hm?
xKirby at Home (5:30:45 PM): :-)
Steak220 (5:30:59 PM): lol, not really, it hasn't been passed yet
xKirby at Home (5:31:09 PM): but theyre rewriting the consitution for ma
Steak220 (5:31:34 PM): if they are, that really pisses me off
xKirby at Home (5:31:46 PM): why?
xKirby at Home (5:31:55 PM): you dont live in ma
Steak220 (5:32:04 PM): gay marraige is wrong, it shouldn't be allowed
xKirby at Home (5:32:12 PM): bullshit
Steak220 (5:32:32 PM): im not homophobic, but you gotta understand, homosexuality is immoral, wrong
xKirby at Home (5:32:32 PM): you just say that because you dont want gay people to feel equal
Steak220 (5:32:37 PM): rofl
Steak220 (5:32:47 PM): they ARE equal, my friend, but they want more than equality now
Steak220 (5:32:57 PM): they're trying to push it so NOBODY will oppose what they do
xKirby at Home (5:32:58 PM): they are not equal if they cant marry
Steak220 (5:33:15 PM): oh, but nobody wants to marry anyways, because it's just a piece of paper, right?
xKirby at Home (5:33:17 PM): everyone always opposes something, they want to express their love by marriage, whats so wrong with that?
Steak220 (5:33:57 PM): it's so screwed up how this mentality of 'marriage is just confining and a piece of paper' and 'we want marriage rights' go on at the same time
xKirby at Home (5:34:17 PM): its only immoral because of certain religions, but who knows if any god even exists, there are such things as homosexua animals, and if they can be homosexual, then so can humans, its natural
Steak220 (5:34:29 PM): but back to my main belief, i believe, just from looking at the antomy of the male and female body, that homosexuality is wrong
Steak220 (5:34:43 PM): two men can't make a baby, can they?
Steak220 (5:34:50 PM): two women can't make a baby, can they?
Steak220 (5:35:03 PM): now, i know kids aren't a prerequisite of marriage
Steak220 (5:35:14 PM): but I'm talking about the homosexuality itself
Steak220 (5:35:43 PM): i also know, that homosexuality is a mental thing, turned physical into later years, it isn't genetic
Steak220 (5:36:01 PM): there is no 'gay gene' like they say, there is scientific proof of this
xKirby at Home (5:36:20 PM): who are you to claim whats natural and immoral anyway? who is anyone to decide, all humans are equal, and no one can just decide "being gay is wrong"
Steak220 (5:36:36 PM): did I ever say 'homosexuals are wrong'?
Steak220 (5:36:41 PM): no, i say the act is wrong
Steak220 (5:37:08 PM): and if you want to bring my authority in this, nobody has the right to decide anything anyway, because we're all equal, right?
Steak220 (5:37:59 PM): people that were gay in their youth, but then got help, and realized what they were doing was wrong, can tell you the same thing I am
xKirby at Home (5:38:19 PM): you do realized that both sides are biased and there will never be someone who is capable of proving either side is completely right, humans arent like that, never have been, never will be
xKirby at Home (5:38:24 PM): being gay isnt wrong
xKirby at Home (5:38:26 PM): are you serious?
Steak220 (5:38:32 PM): i am VERY serious
Steak220 (5:38:55 PM): you make it sound so futile, as if nobody can decide because we're all biased, and can't amke a decision
Steak220 (5:39:14 PM): i'm not biased against gays, I believe that the act of homosexuality is wrong
xKirby at Home (5:39:32 PM): my family is all straight, inever knew what homosexuality or bisexuality was until later, yet at younger ages i found myself attracted to men and women
Steak220 (5:39:44 PM): a gay person has a choice, they can decide NOT to be gay
Steak220 (5:40:04 PM): i know you are bisexual, and I can't claim to explain why you are
xKirby at Home (5:40:18 PM): yes they can, but if they decide that they never were really gay, they were just having psychological issues
Steak220 (5:40:50 PM): actually, homoesxuality is more confusion phsychologically
Steak220 (5:41:18 PM): the way I see it, it is viewing attractions in a skewed manner
xKirby at Home (5:41:45 PM): but its not of your business if a person decides to be gay or not, you have no right to tell people what not to like or be attracted to
xKirby at Home (5:41:50 PM): none*
Steak220 (5:42:37 PM): how is it not my business? is that is so, then I should just ignore the person getting mugged on the street, walk among the ghetto and not drop a penny, and treat my friends like crap because what they do and feel isn't my business
Steak220 (5:43:17 PM): this is exactly on the same plane as all that
xKirby at Home (5:43:19 PM): getting friggan mugged or treating people like crap is a completely different issue, when someone is gay and they dont harm anyone else, it is NONE of your business
Steak220 (5:43:51 PM): actually, lemme explain to you why I believe this REALLY shouldn't be passed
Steak220 (5:43:58 PM): it's because it's against the structure of the family
xKirby at Home (5:44:21 PM): its just because youre close minded
Steak220 (5:44:26 PM): the family is so incredibly important to my views, and this would take away greatly from it's structure
Steak220 (5:44:44 PM): and I believe I have demostrated the fact that I am open to most views, but I know my facts and my beliefs on this matter
Steak220 (5:45:05 PM): is being close minded making informed decisions on life?
Steak220 (5:45:09 PM): i hope not
xKirby at Home (5:45:18 PM): you know what tho?
xKirby at Home (5:46:59 PM): if being gay, or gays having children or getting married wasnt publicized as bad, no one would ever know the difference, it would be natural, yet somewhere along the line people just decide to let everyone know this is wrong
Steak220 (5:47:14 PM): actually, it isn't publicized as bad
Steak220 (5:47:22 PM): where in the news, or media do you see 'gay is bad'?
Steak220 (5:47:39 PM): look, when I was 9 years old
Steak220 (5:47:45 PM): and I had no influence on whether it was right or not
Steak220 (5:48:00 PM): i asked what being gay was, and my bro told me it was two guys liking eachother
Steak220 (5:48:05 PM): there is NO bias in that explanation
Steak220 (5:48:09 PM): from NO bias at all
Steak220 (5:48:15 PM): i made a decision
Steak220 (5:48:20 PM): that it was skewed, wrong
xKirby at Home (5:48:24 PM): nope
xKirby at Home (5:49:55 PM): youre too young to make that decision, you couldnt have logically thought it out yourself, you were just brought up in a straight family, not knowing that homosexuality existed, and then when it was brought up, you realized that something was wrong about it, but you only realized this because you recognized your lifestyle (and familys) as the normal, because they brought you up like that and they familiarized it like that
xKirby at Home (5:50:04 PM): sorry, change that to past tense stuff
Steak220 (5:50:26 PM): actually, no
Steak220 (5:50:29 PM): i knew at that age
Steak220 (5:50:40 PM): that two guys can't do stuff that a guy and a girl can't
Steak220 (5:50:48 PM): from ONLY THAT, i concluded it was wrong
Steak220 (5:50:58 PM): my surroundings and lifestyle had nothing to do with it
xKirby at Home (5:52:01 PM): in the sense of reproduction and continuing (sp?) the human existence, yes that would be wrong, but dont some people choose not to have kids? isnt that wrong too? because, basically, animals are only on earth to reproduce (if you put your religious beliefs aside) and continue the cycle of life
xKirby at Home (5:52:16 PM): but thats wrong, that your surroundings/lifestyle had nothing to do with it
xKirby at Home (5:52:44 PM): thats wrong say that youre surrrounds/... etc
xKirby at Home (5:52:49 PM): saying*
xKirby at Home (5:52:51 PM): dammit
Steak220 (5:52:56 PM): lol, my belief that it is wrong has little to do with the fact that two guys can't reproduce
Steak220 (5:53:01 PM): it's more about the repricussions
Steak220 (5:53:28 PM): it screws up the way families work
Steak220 (5:53:39 PM): families are supposed to be ONE man, ONE woman
Steak220 (5:53:52 PM): and with just those two
Steak220 (5:53:54 PM): that's a family
Steak220 (5:54:05 PM): and they have a choice to take that marriage where ever they want
Steak220 (5:54:08 PM): kids or no kids
xKirby at Home (5:56:14 PM): then, by all means, when you get older, shelter your kids from homosexuality as much as you can, but for people out there who find homosexuality satisfying and normal, just leave them alone, they have a choice...
Steak220 (5:56:24 PM): rofl
Steak220 (5:56:31 PM): your view of a family is SO very wrong
Steak220 (5:57:01 PM): you're thinking of the most conservative Christian family known to the world, with no TVs, no computers, and they all homeskool
Steak220 (5:57:11 PM): you realize how very few of those families exist?
Steak220 (5:57:27 PM): VERY VERY FEW
Steak220 (5:57:47 PM): and I would know, my dad is a pastor, we've gone to families he knows throughout my entire life
Steak220 (5:58:20 PM): and I didn't even know what homosexuality was, until, like I said, I was 9
Steak220 (5:58:28 PM): never heard of it from my parents, brothers, or church
Steak220 (5:58:49 PM): i don't even remember my church before I was 9 or 10
xKirby at Home (5:59:18 PM): you just think youre better and you think you should be able to make decisions for other people, thats all it comes down to, in a scenario who the hell cares if your kids turn out gay? hes still your kid, and whether or not this screws up your view of family, that shouldnt matter... would you put your son down for being gay? or your daughter? thats what youre doing to other people, and you find it easier to do it to them because they arent family
Steak220 (5:59:31 PM): wow, that just from looking at that FIRST line
Steak220 (5:59:57 PM): I can tell that you're making uninformed observations, being defensive, mad, and not really thinking about what you're saying
xKirby at Home (6:00:08 PM): did you read it all?
Steak220 (6:00:17 PM): yes, i did, and you know what?
Steak220 (6:00:42 PM): If I grew up, had a family, and my kid turned gay, I wouldn't be mad at him, and I'd be mad at me for failing him
Steak220 (6:00:52 PM): because it would be MY job
xKirby at Home (6:00:54 PM): thats really sad
xKirby at Home (6:00:57 PM): and pathetic
Steak220 (6:01:08 PM): to show him what it is to be a man
Steak220 (6:01:49 PM): did you know, that if you asked just about any gay man, he would tell you he had no strong father figure in his youth
Steak220 (6:02:14 PM): if there's no father, or grandfather, or uncle, who can act like a father to that kid, then a lot of times, the kid will become gay
Steak220 (6:02:29 PM): this is again, back to the structure of the family
xKirby at Home (6:02:35 PM): ha, thats funny... i didnt have a good father figure until recently, and hes a friend
xKirby at Home (6:02:39 PM): maybe youre right
xKirby at Home (6:06:09 PM): but i still dont think you should put anyone down for doing what they like, and its not fair or humane, people making sure gays cant live equally, thats not fair, and it upsets people, and before i understood who i was, i was depressed all the time because i didnt want people to think less of me because i liked guys as well as girls, because so many people put out that message, and sometimes i still dont know why im not the consider "normal" but i wanna be able to have rights just like anyone else, and if i want to marry a man when im of age, i should be able to.. i mean, i plan to marry a woman, just because the normal family usally can avoid complications such as these.. but what do i know? im a 14 year old and im just trying to say what i think is fair and right
Steak220 (6:06:17 PM): it's not putting people down
xKirby at Home (6:06:46 PM): well it hurts them
Steak220 (6:06:55 PM): it's about standing up for what is right
Steak220 (6:07:22 PM): and if everything you say is to avoid hurting people, then you might as well as not sasy anything
Steak220 (6:07:30 PM): but wait, not saying anything hurts people too, doesn't it?
Steak220 (6:07:43 PM): this is called indifference, if you don't stand up for what you believe
Steak220 (6:07:53 PM): I believe the act of homosexuality is wrong
xKirby at Home (6:08:39 PM): well, then its too late for me to be right then
Steak220 (6:08:55 PM): i said this earlier, chanigng is possible
Steak220 (6:08:58 PM): definately not easy
Steak220 (6:09:02 PM): but it IS possible
xKirby at Home (6:09:14 PM): no, its too late
Steak220 (6:09:29 PM): it's only too late if you make it too late for yourself
Steak220 (6:09:50 PM): you're the sole deiciding factor in this, you can change what your future may be like
xKirby at Home (6:10:18 PM): i dont know what decided id be bisexual, or how my mind started being attracted to both sexes, but as far as i can remember, ive been like this, so why fight it? itd be like fighting yourself, and thats just ridiculous
Steak220 (6:10:35 PM): yes, it si fighting yourself
Steak220 (6:10:40 PM): that's exactly what it is
xKirby at Home (6:10:56 PM): youre supposed to love yourself for who you are, because youll need that to be confident
Steak220 (6:11:14 PM): but think of it this way: if you want to steal something, you probably wouldn't let yourself, right? you wouldn't, because you know it's wrong, not to mention there would be bad consequences from it
Steak220 (6:11:25 PM): that is an example of fighting yourself
xKirby at Home (6:12:03 PM): yeah, i guess... but that is a lot less shallow than a thing like homosexuality, because its basically in my subconscious now, and itd take a hell out a lot of fighting to get it out of that
Steak220 (6:12:24 PM): i know that stealing and homosexuality are different, but it's ahrd to create a good anaolgy
xKirby at Home (6:12:30 PM): true
Steak220 (6:12:42 PM): but I need to go to a church thingy in a few minutes
Steak220 (6:12:47 PM): do you mind if I post this in my blog?
xKirby at Home (6:13:02 PM): you can go ahead, ill prolly look like an idiot, but sure
Steak220 (6:13:05 PM): a few people have asked me why I believe homosexuality is wrong, and this is a wonderful explanation
Steak220 (6:13:23 PM): it's hard to explain what I believe to people, especially since it takes so long
Steak220 (6:13:24 PM): but thanks
Steak220 (6:13:25 PM): :-)
xKirby at Home (6:13:30 PM): no problem

A little bit later....

xKirby at Home (6:24:55 PM): lol, tim, that really affected me... and now you got me all confused, theres people telling me to be proud of who i am, and then theres others telling me, i am wrong... that father figure thing makes sense, seeing as my dad left my mom because he didnt want to be a father, and im guessing maybe i learned a lot more feminime qualities from my mom, since she raised me mostly and i always recognized her as my mother and someone to learn from the most, yet i remember not liking anyone sexually, and sometimes id look at my moms clothes magazines and show my mom or grandmother who i thought was pretty or not... and somewhere along the line, i began being interested in men as well as women, sexually, and the most recent time i can remember is when i hit puberty and began being interested in
Steak220 (6:25:40 PM): i'm really glad that you're thinking about what I said
xKirby at Home (6:25:55 PM): "aggressive, competitive" things because all guys were, right? and yet i was attracted to the men that were wrestling, and i think puberty and wrestling was when i first realized i liked men, so i went along thinking i was "kind of gay" because i had no idea what bisexuality was, but later on, as i became more curious to things, i looked stuff up and realized, hey i like both sexes, im bisexual
Steak220 (6:25:57 PM): but I'm sorry, I know there's a lot of opinions coming at you
Steak220 (6:26:37 PM): [nods]
xKirby at Home (6:26:48 PM): :X
xKirby at Home (6:27:32 PM): so maybe my lack of a father figure earlier in life and my confusion about my sexuality triggered all my insecurities and my low self esteem and my extreme self conscienceness
xKirby at Home (6:27:47 PM): not all of them, but a lot of them
Steak220 (6:28:13 PM): yeah, this is what I mean by the family, stuff like this happens when a family doesn't work right
Steak220 (6:28:38 PM): im sorry about what u have to go through
xKirby at Home (6:29:00 PM): but homosexuality isnt the only thing that ruins families, so, its not like homosexuals are evil... maybe theyre just confused people?
xKirby at Home (6:29:38 PM): you can post this too if you want more, i dont mind..
Steak220 (6:29:58 PM): homosexuals don't ruin families, but, in general, immorality does, and I don't just mean homosexduality
Steak220 (6:30:13 PM): alcoholism, gambling, cheating, that all ruins families
Steak220 (6:30:58 PM): it's the sin, not the sinner
xKirby at Home (6:31:30 PM): yeah, true
Steak220 (6:33:30 PM): but to me, in the end, it's just all about the family
xKirby at Home (6:33:42 PM): yeah
xKirby at Home (6:33:47 PM): if you dont have a family, what do you hage?
xKirby at Home (6:33:50 PM): have*
Steak220 (6:34:02 PM): exactly
Steak220 (6:34:23 PM): im really glad you're seeing what I was trying to show you
Steak220 (6:35:02 PM): i thought it was gonna end up like all my other conversations, with the two of us just showing to eachother we'll never consider the other side's view

Wow. It's amazing looking at another person's life, and realizing what they must go through. It's really confusing to me, how something as seemingly simple as the act of homosexuality, can stir up so many things, feelings, just everything. But I'm really glad it wasn't as much of a debate, as it was a conversation.

Good Day.
posted by MC Froehlich at

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